What happened at Wednesday’s second hearing
- Laura Cooper, a deputy assistant secretary of defense, told the House Intelligence Committee her staff recently unearthed two emails indicating the Ukrainians were aware of an issue with military assistance as early as July 25.
- David Hale, undersecretary of state for political affairs at the State Department, testified that he was told the directive to place the hold on the aid came directly from the president.
- Read and watch highlights from the first hearing here.
- Download the free CBS News app to stream live coverage of all the impeachment hearings.
Washington — The Pentagon official responsible for the Defense Department’s military aid program testified that emails show Ukrainian officials were asking the State Department about a delayed aid package on July 25, the same day as President Trump’s call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Laura Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, told the House Intelligence Committee that members of her staff had recently brought to her attention the emails, which show the Ukrainian embassy was asking about the delay far earlier than previously known.
Cooper’s testimony undercuts a key argument from Mr. Trump’s defenders: that military aid could not have been leveraged to open investigations in the Bidens and 2016, since the Ukrainians were unaware of an issue until later in the summer.
Cooper testified along David Hale, the undersecretary of state for political affairs, who told the committees he was told by an official at the White House Office of Management and Budget that the order to delay the aid came directly from the president.
Schiff highlights campaign against Yovanovitch and delay in military aid
5:46 p.m.: House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff kicked off the second hearing of the day, continuing a long day on Capitol Hill.
Schiff highlighted that Hale was a witness to the “smear” campaign against former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, and pushed the State Department to release a statement supporting her.
“Hale pushed to get the State Department to put out a ‘robust full-page statement of defense and praise’ for Ambassador Yovanovitch, sadly to no avail,” Schiff said. “That silence continues today.”
Schiff said Cooper oversaw the military assistance package to Ukraine that was delayed over the summer. He said she was “involved in efforts to understand and reverse the suspension,” which was ultimately lifted on September 11.
“All of the agencies responsible for Ukraine policy supported security assistance and advocated for the lifting of the hold,” Schiff said. “The only dissenting voice was OMB, who was following the orders of President Trump. And still no good explanation for the hold was provided.” — Kathryn Watson and Stefan Becket
Cooper says Ukraine asked about aid delay on same day as Trump-Zelensky call
6:15 p.m.: In her opening statement, Cooper amended her earlier deposition to say she has since learned Ukrainian officials asked about a possible holdup on security assistance as early as July 25 — the day of the now-infamous Trump-Zelensky phone call.
Cooper said her staff informed after her initial deposition about two emails sent on that date, including one from a contact at the Ukrainian embassy to a member of her staff, asking what was “going on” with the aid.
It’s the earliest indication of Ukrainian concerns about a possible delay in the aid. And Cooper’s testimony could potentially undermine a key argument from Republicans and the president: that there couldn’t be a quid pro quo, because Ukraine didn’t know aid was being withheld.
“On the issue of Ukraine’s knowledge of the hold or of Ukraine asking questions about possible issues with the flow of assistance, my staff showed me two unclassified emails that they received from the State Department,” Cooper testified. “One was received on July 25 at 2:31 p.m. That email said that the Ukrainian embassy and House Foreign Affairs Committee are asking about security assistance. The second email was received on July 25 at 4:25 p.m. That email said that the Hill knows about the FMF situation to an extent, and so does the Ukrainian embassy,” referring to the State Department aid program.
Mr. Trump spoke with Zelensky in the 9 a.m. hour on July 25.
Cooper also said a member of her staff heard from a Ukrainian staffer in the week of August 6 to 10, warning that a Ukrainian official might raise the issue of assistance in an upcoming meeting. She said, to her understanding, the issue was not ultimately raised at the meeting.
Cooper said she became aware in July that the funds to Ukraine were being held up because, she was told, the president had concerns about corruption in Ukraine.
“Let me say at the outset that I have never discussed this or any other matter with the president and never heard directly from him about this matter,” Cooper said in her prepared testimony.
Cooper said there were only two ways for the administration to legally withhold aid from Ukraine, both of which would have required notifying Congress. Neither of those avenues was pursued, she said. She also testified that the Pentagon did review corruption in Ukraine, and certified there wasn’t any reason to withhold military assistance. The president still appeared to intervene after that certification. — Kathryn Watson
Hale says he was told order to withhold aid came directly from the president
6:33 p.m.: Hale testified that he learned of the hold on aid on July 21, and heard from an official from the Office of Management and Budget that the directive to withhold the aid came directly from the president. Hale said he “misspoke” in an earlier deposition, when he said he heard of the holdup in June.
No one supported the hold on the aid except for OMB, Hale noted. But Hale also testified he wasn’t aware of any nefarious plot to withhold the aid. — Kathryn Watson
Cooper and Hale say Trump did not reach out to them after putting aid on hold
7:09 p.m.: Both Cooper and Hale testified that they did not hear from the president, and they were unaware of any of their colleagues hearing from the president, after he ordered a hold on the aid.
That testimony was sparked by a question from Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell, who claimed that if the president was so insistent on rooting out corruption in Ukraine, he would follow up to inquiry about any progress. — Kathryn Watson
Ratcliffe tries to poke holes in assertion that Ukraine suspected possible aid hold
7:21 p.m.: GOP Representative John Ratcliffe tried to poke holes in any assertion that Ukraine suspected military aid was being withheld on July 25, noting the vague language a Ukraine aid used in the email Cooper referenced.
Cooper had noted in her opening statement that her staff showed her two unclassified emails she received from the State Department, one of which was received just hours after the Trump-Zelensky call, noting concerns about security assistance.
Ratcliffe tried to make the case in his questioning that Ukrainians didn’t necessarily know aid was being held up.
Cooper said she couldn’t say for sure that the question from Ukraine was specifically about the freeze on aid, but did not it was unusual for Ukraine to ask such a question, and they typically had specific reasons for inquiries. — Kathryn Watson
Cooper says $35 million in Ukraine aid has yet to be released
7:35 p.m.: Cooper confirmed that $35 million in aid to Ukraine has yet to be obligated, a complication from the holdup of aid earlier this year.
It’s a figure that has elicited concern from Democrats. Senate Democrats wrote Defense Secretary Mark Esper earlier this week, asking him to deliver the funds as soon as possible.
Cooper and Hale also testified they did not know why the aid was held up, other than because the president directed it to be so.
Nunes, in final remarks, calls proceedings an “impeachment inquisition”
7:48 p.m. Top Republican Representative Devin Nunes said this isn’t an impeachment hearing, but an “impeachment inquisition.”
“Now I yield to Mr. Schiff for story time hour,” Nunes said.
“I thank the gentlemen as always for his remarks,” Schiff responded, a remark met with laughter from those still in the room.
Schiff reiterated some of his key points, particularly that the president did not criticize but praised some corrupt individuals, like the fired prosecutor in Ukraine.
“That’s not anti-corruption, that’s corruption,” Schiff noted. — Kathryn Watson
Hearing concludes
7:57 p.m. The hearing concluded shortly before 8 p.m., closing out a very full day on Capitol Hill.
On Thursday morning, former National Security Council official Fiona Hill and David Holmes, an official in the embassy in Ukraine, are slated to appear.
